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	<title>Comments on: Remembering on the web - 5 reasons why online bookmarking is the wrong tool</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html</link>
	<description>Philipp Kellers weblog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 05:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Prashant Rane</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-96176</link>
		<dc:creator>Prashant Rane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 05:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-96176</guid>
		<description>I know that you are not talking about social part. But, folks bookmarking "interesting" sites is important. Interesting for one person might be Useful for another.

What I like about delicious is what I call the "Being John Malkovich" part. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120601/ 

Do you remember that movie? Wasn't such a good movie, but the idea was brilliant. 

I think delicious lets to do that; up to a degree of course. If you look at John Udell's subscriptions, you know what he is going to read; and if you know what he is going to read, you can guess what he is going to write about. A portal to John Udell's mind. Now try to beat that. I would have killed to take a look at an Umber geek's bookmarks or installed programs list. delicious is an absolute favorite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know that you are not talking about social part. But, folks bookmarking &#8220;interesting&#8221; sites is important. Interesting for one person might be Useful for another.</p>
<p>What I like about delicious is what I call the &#8220;Being John Malkovich&#8221; part. <a href="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120601/" rel="nofollow">http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120601/</a> </p>
<p>Do you remember that movie? Wasn&#8217;t such a good movie, but the idea was brilliant. </p>
<p>I think delicious lets to do that; up to a degree of course. If you look at John Udell&#8217;s subscriptions, you know what he is going to read; and if you know what he is going to read, you can guess what he is going to write about. A portal to John Udell&#8217;s mind. Now try to beat that. I would have killed to take a look at an Umber geek&#8217;s bookmarks or installed programs list. delicious is an absolute favorite.</p>
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		<title>By: Philipp Keller</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94788</link>
		<dc:creator>Philipp Keller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2007 07:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94788</guid>
		<description>Tim: Ok, I misinterpreted your writing style. Apologies!
I think I now understood your point and I fully concur.
I've written a new section "clarification" at the start that should help clear things up a bit. Is this also what you meant?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim: Ok, I misinterpreted your writing style. Apologies!<br />
I think I now understood your point and I fully concur.<br />
I&#8217;ve written a new section &#8220;clarification&#8221; at the start that should help clear things up a bit. Is this also what you meant?</p>
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		<title>By: tim</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94484</link>
		<dc:creator>tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94484</guid>
		<description>"I’d appreciate if you’d show a little more respect."

I like it when people tell me my ideas are silly; most ideas are.  (How else would I know when I hit a good one?)  Sorry if you took it wrong.

"You are saving links that are potentially interesting for you in the future."

No, that's not what I said.  I said "will I use this again".  "Interesting" and "will use" are disjoint sets.  I can see how if you were selecting for "interesting" that it would fail at "useful in the future".  You have to separate these concepts in your mind.

"It probably also depends on what/how you’re working. I work for a websearch company ..."

Well, all those apply to me, too, but I seem to delicious an order of magnitude fewer bookmarks.

Perhaps my first comment here is relevant.  I think of all things (including blog postings and ideas in my own head) as fundamentally useless, unless they can prove otherwise.  "Interesting" is not a high enough threshold -- I have interesting ideas all day.  You're a collector.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d appreciate if you’d show a little more respect.&#8221;</p>
<p>I like it when people tell me my ideas are silly; most ideas are.  (How else would I know when I hit a good one?)  Sorry if you took it wrong.</p>
<p>&#8220;You are saving links that are potentially interesting for you in the future.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, that&#8217;s not what I said.  I said &#8220;will I use this again&#8221;.  &#8220;Interesting&#8221; and &#8220;will use&#8221; are disjoint sets.  I can see how if you were selecting for &#8220;interesting&#8221; that it would fail at &#8220;useful in the future&#8221;.  You have to separate these concepts in your mind.</p>
<p>&#8220;It probably also depends on what/how you’re working. I work for a websearch company &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, all those apply to me, too, but I seem to delicious an order of magnitude fewer bookmarks.</p>
<p>Perhaps my first comment here is relevant.  I think of all things (including blog postings and ideas in my own head) as fundamentally useless, unless they can prove otherwise.  &#8220;Interesting&#8221; is not a high enough threshold &#8212; I have interesting ideas all day.  You&#8217;re a collector.  :-)</p>
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		<title>By: cosa</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94471</link>
		<dc:creator>cosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 21:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94471</guid>
		<description>mmm... but, i found your article via stumble... i think the value in social bookmarking is the fact that you can be surprised on how a topic is enhaced by other people, at least that's the funny part for me: i tagged "art" thinking in Van Gogh but now i'm enjoying "urban art" thanks to someone who thought that graffitti is "art" too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mmm&#8230; but, i found your article via stumble&#8230; i think the value in social bookmarking is the fact that you can be surprised on how a topic is enhaced by other people, at least that&#8217;s the funny part for me: i tagged &#8220;art&#8221; thinking in Van Gogh but now i&#8217;m enjoying &#8220;urban art&#8221; thanks to someone who thought that graffitti is &#8220;art&#8221; too.</p>
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		<title>By: vanderwal</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94450</link>
		<dc:creator>vanderwal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:23:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94450</guid>
		<description>The tools may not be good for you, but for most they serve people quite well. 

I have to say del.icio.us has become a horrible tool for refinding things I have bookmarked. I have over 2600 bookmarks and gobs of tags, but del.icio.us has not provided the ability to get back to things I know I have saved there.

I moved my corpus to Ma.gnolia and have not had this problem. If I did not tag something with a term I am trying to use for recall it may not find it, but often it also searches in the document (it saves a copy as del.icio.us does not) and can find a match that way and it looks in other's tags. 

ClipMarks has a similar solution.

There is a great need for a solution to your problem to be implemented, the solution for tag healing is well known, it takes server resources, which has limited its implementation so far. Most of the services have built something that can adequately perform this tag healing (searching for social bookmarking and I only put folksonomy and tagging, but normally also put social bookmarking).

The problem is not with social bookmarking being a wrong tool, it is the tools have not grown-up. Most tools have followed del.icio.us, but it is not the leader for functionality any more and has not been for 18 months or more. Del.icio.us has a large mass of people using it, which should not be confused for it being the best tool. Other social bookmarking tool do get this stuff right and are improving greatly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The tools may not be good for you, but for most they serve people quite well. </p>
<p>I have to say del.icio.us has become a horrible tool for refinding things I have bookmarked. I have over 2600 bookmarks and gobs of tags, but del.icio.us has not provided the ability to get back to things I know I have saved there.</p>
<p>I moved my corpus to Ma.gnolia and have not had this problem. If I did not tag something with a term I am trying to use for recall it may not find it, but often it also searches in the document (it saves a copy as del.icio.us does not) and can find a match that way and it looks in other&#8217;s tags. </p>
<p>ClipMarks has a similar solution.</p>
<p>There is a great need for a solution to your problem to be implemented, the solution for tag healing is well known, it takes server resources, which has limited its implementation so far. Most of the services have built something that can adequately perform this tag healing (searching for social bookmarking and I only put folksonomy and tagging, but normally also put social bookmarking).</p>
<p>The problem is not with social bookmarking being a wrong tool, it is the tools have not grown-up. Most tools have followed del.icio.us, but it is not the leader for functionality any more and has not been for 18 months or more. Del.icio.us has a large mass of people using it, which should not be confused for it being the best tool. Other social bookmarking tool do get this stuff right and are improving greatly.</p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94424</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94424</guid>
		<description>Actually, I just re-tagged your article, with "commented".  I do that for any blog I comment on and want to track - it's the only way to follow up on any comment thread these days.

That's the next blog I think needs to be written - how the blogosphere is entirely fractured into the tiniest little communities and there is no way to have reasonable discussions any longer - comments on blogs are just broken - I think I saw a blog about that actually...nothing is ever new : http://javathink.blogspot.com/2006/09/research-it-first.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I just re-tagged your article, with &#8220;commented&#8221;.  I do that for any blog I comment on and want to track - it&#8217;s the only way to follow up on any comment thread these days.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s the next blog I think needs to be written - how the blogosphere is entirely fractured into the tiniest little communities and there is no way to have reasonable discussions any longer - comments on blogs are just broken - I think I saw a blog about that actually&#8230;nothing is ever new : <a href="http://javathink.blogspot.com/2006/09/research-it-first.html" rel="nofollow">http://javathink.blogspot.com/2006/09/research-it-first.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94422</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 16:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94422</guid>
		<description>You know you are absolutely right - so much so that pretty much all I use delicious for these days is link *sharing*.  I share links with my friends, but I struggle to categorize them.  I just shared this link with my friend in fact, and you gave me the liberation to ignore entirely any idea of what tag it should have - why should I?  I'm not coming back to your post any time soon (no offense) - and if I do - often the historical context in delicious is the only one I need - tags do nothing.  

The other sharing I do is with an automated "buzz" generator that I set up for my company, which is the same thing as sharing for friends, except I tag for a Yahoo! Pipe which aggregates links and displays them via RSS on our home page.

Great post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know you are absolutely right - so much so that pretty much all I use delicious for these days is link *sharing*.  I share links with my friends, but I struggle to categorize them.  I just shared this link with my friend in fact, and you gave me the liberation to ignore entirely any idea of what tag it should have - why should I?  I&#8217;m not coming back to your post any time soon (no offense) - and if I do - often the historical context in delicious is the only one I need - tags do nothing.  </p>
<p>The other sharing I do is with an automated &#8220;buzz&#8221; generator that I set up for my company, which is the same thing as sharing for friends, except I tag for a Yahoo! Pipe which aggregates links and displays them via RSS on our home page.</p>
<p>Great post!</p>
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		<title>By: russ</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94391</link>
		<dc:creator>russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94391</guid>
		<description>I'm surprised you managed to keep it to just 5 reasons ;)

Anyway, I use http://favowitz.com/ for my bookmarks and I find it really helpful and easy to use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m surprised you managed to keep it to just 5 reasons ;)</p>
<p>Anyway, I use <a href="http://favowitz.com/" rel="nofollow">http://favowitz.com/</a> for my bookmarks and I find it really helpful and easy to use.</p>
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		<title>By: masukomi</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94387</link>
		<dc:creator>masukomi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94387</guid>
		<description>I &lt;a href="http://weblog.masukomi.org/2007/10/24/why-social-bookmarking-really-isn-t-the-wrong-tool" rel="nofollow"&gt;beg to differ&lt;/a&gt; but the reasons are too long for a comment field.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I <a href="http://weblog.masukomi.org/2007/10/24/why-social-bookmarking-really-isn-t-the-wrong-tool" rel="nofollow">beg to differ</a> but the reasons are too long for a comment field.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94378</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 14:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pui.ch/phred/archives/2007/10/remembering-on-the-web-5-reasons-why-social-bookmarking-doesnt-work.html#comment-94378</guid>
		<description>If it's worth reading twice, it's worth downloading.

wget -rNpk --execute robots=off -U "Mozilla/5.001 (windows; U; NT4.0; en-us) Gecko/25250101"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it&#8217;s worth reading twice, it&#8217;s worth downloading.</p>
<p>wget -rNpk &#8211;execute robots=off -U &#8220;Mozilla/5.001 (windows; U; NT4.0; en-us) Gecko/25250101&#8243;</p>
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