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September 3rd, 2007

The delicious lesson – revisited

I’m very happy that a recent post titled «Tag history and gartners hype cycles» stirred up a discussion in the
folksonomy-blog-space that got some people musing about the state of tagging:

Paolo Valdemarin:

4 years later I’m still wondering when will we get some truly advanced tagging tools.
Where are all these tools to manage all my tags (on Flickr, on del.icio.us, on technorati, in my RSS reader, on my blog, etc), to help me organizing them, to allow me to gain more advantages from tagging? (maybe they are somewhere and I simply have not found them yet…)

Matt Mower:

I have been surprised, that [...] the state of the art in tagging seems firmly wedged in 2003. Surprised because there seemed [...] to be a momentum building in the use of tagging

David Weinberger:

Tagging like it was 2002

Thomas Vander Wal:

In the consumer space thing have been stagnant for a while, but in the enterprise space there is some good forward movement and some innovation taking place
[...]
While there are examples that tagging services have moved forward, there is so much more room to advance and improve. As people’s own collection of tagged pages and objects have grown the tools are needed to better refind them.

Vander Wals post is very very insightful and worth a read: He sums up the tagging history and expresses a few brilliant ideas how to proceed.

The delicious lesson – revisited

The big question remains: Why is tagging stuck?

My suggestion is that we may rethink the delicious lesson: Not in terms of “is it true that personal value precedes network value?” but in terms of “what is the real benefit of the users?” or in other words: “How can we design the itch that causes users to generate valuable metadata?”

Recently I talked with Cédric Huesler, a coworker of mine about his use of del.icio.us: Instead of using delicious for storing his bookmarks for later retrieval he stores them to exchange links with strangers. Indeed he has 19 regular consumers of his bookmarks, 7 of these users he is consumer as well.

He doesn’t store his personal bookmarks at all. He can recall from memory where or how he found a certain website and goes back to his google history.

There are just a few entry points into new information on the web: there is Google, feed aggregators or frontpage sites. When there are good search utilities in those tools who needs bookmarks? I must confess that searching at those entry points feels more natural to me than remembering the exact tag I used.

Let’s put it straight: Using tags to find my bookmarks later just doesn’t work. I give up. And no, it’s not just the lack of good tools that help me going through my bookmarks to reorganize them. I won’t do that for all my 3444 bookmarks. And no, this won’t be solved with better tools to refind my items. What do you want to throw into the mix? Fulltext search and time based drill-down? This has nothing to do with tags.

So, we might have to rephrase the users motivation to tag, as I don’t think Joshua Porter was right when he wrote:

in order to gain more personal value, they use tags to be able to find their bookmarks later

I’m not yet at the point where I could correctly rephrase that statement, but I think Cédrics approach in using tags not for personal recall but for publishing is worth a thought. The value therein is close to the value of blogging: You get attention and you communicate. And that’s what the web is about, isn’t it?

4 Comments »

  1. Does Cédric really find other users by tags, or by “saved by..”? maybe the user dimension is more important than the tag dimension

    Comment by Phu — October 5, 2007 2:35 pm #comment-89951

  2. If tagging is obsolete, what is the alternative??

    Comment by Kevin — November 14, 2007 12:19 am #comment-98268

  3. Hi Kevin.
    No, tagging is not obsolete at all. In my follow up post I clarified what I meant.

    I think it’s important to use tagging for the right purposes, otherwise it will never unleash its potential.

    Comment by Philipp Keller — November 14, 2007 10:46 am #comment-98368

  4. I completely agree.
    I added tags to all my Firefox bookmarks and even to the delicious.com ones. But I don’t really use them. I just use the Firefox “awsome bar”, type what I want and there it is.
    I Addition to you follow up post: I think foreseeing the future works better with classical categories (this may be the alternative for Kevin if searching isn’t). I got some like “creating a website” “fun” etc. which are step-by-step tutorial and reference collections. If I would tag them the order and the subtopics are lost, so nearly always no gain.

    But tags really rock finding related pages.

    Maybe it would be nice to have delicious find related pages based on multiple tags. For example: Looking something up at Google and the deliciuos toolbar says: There are another popular website about this at http:/…
    (I am using delicious mainly to share links too)

    Anyway I don’t have too much problems, because I’ve got only ~400 bookmarks

    Comment by Bernhard Häussner — March 11, 2009 11:39 pm #comment-130358

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