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When I first heard about del.icio.us (and after that few days when I didn’t get it..) I thought: “This is revolutionary”. There were many things tags made possible that were just not possible until that day.
Joshua Schachter was the guy that invented tags (or at least that’s how the story is being told). Originally thought as a way to organize ones own bookmarks the social effect became obvious:
If everyone tags, the “community” profits.
Now, we have del.icio.us. Now we organize our bookmarks with tags. And our photos.
And our books, our games, our software, our tagging sites, and also your bulldogs, if you have any.
However, as we have tagged our whole life, what do we do with it? What is it good for?
I fear the tagging-revolution is about to calm. And I believe that’s because many people don’t see the advantages in tagging. I believe that many many things can be made possible by using tag-based systems. If we realized this, tagging would get some fresh air and eventually tagging gets mainstream.
Is it just me, or is the tagging revolution really stuck? I desperately miss new, visionary, inventive articles on tags.
I could stop here with my article, but, hey, I don’t want to be the grumbling guy that sits and waits for new things coming up, so here I am, trying to expose my brain to you.
In this article I want to take a look at what areas tags are already strong in and how tagging could gain ground in these areas.
When Joshua came up with the idea of tags, it was purely meant for organizing. It was only when also other people started organizing by tags, when the whole idea of “folksonomy” came up.
What does organizing mean? It is like tidying ones room: You put every paper and pencil you have at a place you can remember and seems logical to you so you can easily remember where you have put that thing. Now as we are not limited into physical means when we organize data we have many new possibilities. There are already good articles about this so I won’t discuss this in detail here.
At the end of the day, the question arises: Is organizing your bookmarks by tags really that good?
Just to make the point I come up with another way to remember things: While browsing, the browser could save all pages in a cache and when you are searching for a page you have visited (which is why you originally bookmark the page anyway), you make a fulltext search through all your cached pages. It’s a kind of “Google search” over pages you have already visited. I know this would have some downsides but it would have some advantages too. I often searched for a page I bookmarked and couldn’t remember the tag I used. This problem wouldn’t occur in the “searching through cache” system.
What I am trying to say is: If tagging solely would be for organizing your stuff, it wouldn’t be worth the trouble.
Folksonomy is – as I understand it – the distributed classification of data by the big mass of people who tag stuff. Folksonomy often is said as a new system to build a taxonomy. It’s like building the Open Directory by thousands of people tagging stuff.
What is folksonomy good for? Why do we want to put bookmarks into categories?
Where do you go to start building a new expertise? Is it del.icio.us? Is it Google?
Let’s say your boss tells you that the data your software saves in the database should be encoded. You didn’t think much about cryptography, it merely was a topic that you “should know about” but you were never really interested in cryptography (I’m speaking for myself here.. :-) ). You don’t really know where to start. You know you want to know something about cryptography, but you don’t know exactly what.
A good list of articles or even starting points could shorten your learning curve.
Thereafter, you may want to “travel through the cryptography universe”. And to travel means knowing which articles are related to the one you just read and are so enthusiastic about. You need a map of the cryptography universe, you want to know what is left and right, top and bottom, you want to know everything and everyone related to “cryptography”.
Now then: What would you do?
I would go on del.icio.us/tag/cryptography+introduction. There I find a nice article titled “An Overview of Cryptography“. I guess I’m lucky! If I’d read the article, I’d probably find out which subtopics exist, how cryptography is related to similar issues and so on. You kind of get this “map of the cryptography” universe. But, this is done by only one author. Probably I don’t trust him (probably I should do so, after reading his cv), or you simply do not have time and/or energy to read through 44 pages, although the article looks good. I’ll probably go back to delicious and find out, that the related tags of “cryptography” are:
Now this is not very convincing, is it? You argue:
Yeah, but this is far better that what I get on Google
.
It is. When looking at this Google results I remember that Google is meant for searching when I already know what I search for. But now I am at a different stage. I don’t know exactly what to search for. I don’t know, because I don’t have any expertise in cryptography. BTW: Google does come up with an article that looks like a good introduction into cryptography as well..
What about open directory? Let’s give it a try: After typing in “cryptography” I find out that this topic is classified in Science > Math > Applications > Communication_Theory > Communication Theory > Cryptography. Clicking this link you get what you were probably looking for.
You get a nice overview:
Now you stand at a guidepost. You see the “cryptography universe”. You probably don’t see what is left and right to cryptography, but here you have a “cryptography at a glance”.
Now it’s up to you: Do you want to explore “algorithm land”, take the shortcut and download the programming library of the language of your choice? Or do you even want to get advice from people that are experts on that matter?
Even if the links provided here don’t give you what you are looking for, here you get a clue what you should look for.
Let’s compare browsing to a reallife quest: Finding out where your next conference will take place. Say you want to go to the next etech conference, you don’t know where it is and you are not an American citizen.

On the conference websites they often put a map showing the conference place like 10 meters above surface. This map is helpful. But only at the point when you are quite next to the conference.

Then, when you desperately search for a more general map, you’ll possibly find a map of how it looks from outer space. Yeah, I know that San Diego is in the US, but I’d like to know which airport is next to the conference.

That’s quite similar to the views we have with del.icio.us and open directory.
Delicious would tell you: “the roads nearby are ‘union street’, ‘Broadway circle’ and ‘Broadway’…”, open directory proclaims: “we have five continents in the world: ‘America’, ‘Asia’, ‘Africa’, ‘Australia’ and ‘Europe’…”. Now, I’m exaggerating a bit but you get the point: Sometimes you need a map that lays between the too detailed and the too general map.
Looking for this type of view is like saying: “I want a bit more ontology than tags but not that much taxonomy as open directory”. That’s where I’ve put the question mark. It’s not that you always want to see the data at that distance but sometimes you desperately want to have that viewpoint.
Now, what has this to do with tagging? I believe that this missing in-between view can be won by analyzing tags.
Have you noticed how flickr does this in-between view?
When you search for love, flickr cluster asks you: “What do you mean by ‘love’?”:
“Wait: Flickr is a bit different from del.icio.us”, you say. Yup. Flickr uses a narrow, del.icio.us a broad folksonomy system.
But I believe that the data clusters, flickr creates with it’s narrow folksonomy data, can also be generated with delicious’ broad folksonomy data. I am programming an algorithm that computes del.icio.us clusters. I’m still at an early stage but I get clusters like this “shopping cluster”:

I realize that even if the cluster data is available, there’s the question how to navigate through the data. The “zooming in” and “zooming out” won’t be as easy as with Google maps.
But anyway, here is the land no one has explored before. I think this is the area we should talk about. Here is room for improvement.
Back to what folksonomies are good for: If you have built an expertise in cryptography, you want to stay informed. If RSA is hacked, you certainly want to be informed.
Delicious has got an “Inbox” where you can subscribe to a tag, e.g. “cryptography”.
Each bookmark that is tagged “cryptography” gets in your inbox. That’s a great way to stay informed. Alternatively you have a list of of recent popular sites tagged “cryptography”. You can subscribe to this lists using RSS and hopefully you get informed timely if RSA is hacked..
I think the comparison with the distance to the data applies here too:
If I’d subscribe to cryptography, I’d probably miss some important items, just because the guy who bookmarked it used the tag “crypto”. On the other hand, I do not want to be informed about another Rijndael algorithm, I want to narrow the incoming links to articles or essays that deal with cryptography.
Delicious already offers to narrow results: I could subscribe to «cryptography» and «essay», and, when delicious will support union (and it will, as Joshua promises), I also could have subscribe to (cryptography or crypto) and (essay or article) but you see that it doesn’t really solve the problem.
I imagine that one day you can say:
I want to keep being informed about cryptography
and the service asks you:
Should I keep you informed about
- new implementations
- new articles/essays
- security issues
And I believe this is possible. Flickr already asks you this when you are searching for love pictures. I guess it will be based on clusters again.
Back to what tags are good for: They help you building lists. Let’s name a few examples:
javascript and editorI’m often annoyed that I cannot put my del.icio.us links in a specific order. I did a little script that puts my newest bootkmark at the bottom but it doesn’t fully solve the problem.
Actually I’d like being able to compose a view of tagged bookmarks, i.e. I want to offer a list of all firms our company has built the network for:
Networking references
Big firms
Medium-sized firms
Small firms
Nowadays, such a list can’t be automatically generated from my bookmarks, but it could be, by letting me configure my view as myView = (references+networking, "Networking References", (big_firms, medium-sized_firms, small_firms)).
I know it’s not a big challenge to program such a thing, but nonetheless it doesn’t exist, as far as I know?
It appears to me that there’s not been much progress being done related to tagging systems lately. What rather became better is the embedding of tagging systems into already existing technologies such as search. It gives the impression that core issues are done and that there’s no much room for improvement. In this article I wanted to disprove this.
I think that there’s much much more than I have written in here, I even believe that todays tagging applications cover just about 5% of all the possible features tagging makes possible. Thus, let’s gain ground.
RSS feed for comments on this post.
In reply to Michal Migurskis reply to this article:
Hmm.. probably you are right. I should take out google search from my “distance to data” image. On the other hand: Google search just gives me results to my query. What I wanted to analyze was, how does the web service help me to navigate, how do I see related terms, etc. Google doesn’t give me these infos (sometimes it helps me a little, for instance when searching for internet, a news entry about internet shows up.). What Google does is ordering the items to hopefully show me the more relevant articles to my search term. This is a feature lacking in del.icio.us and DMOZ. Ah, maybe I’m comparing apples and oranges..? Maybe we should view browsing in tagged content as an alternative to “browsing” in search engine ranked data?
I second you. That’s exactly what I feel too. I subscribed to del.icio.us popular on “tagging” and “journalism”. Both give me some good links. Just 1-2 per day, and just the popular ones (I too have no faith into the popular thing in del.icio.us anymore). That’s why I urge to have better possibilities. I want clusters!
Quote of the day. Nothing to add here.
Can you explain what you mean by “but the API terms are too limiting for external experimentation”? About the hairy math: Nobody has done it but I believe it is possible. I’m doing some hairy math on del.icio.us tagging data (I’m computing tag-clusters) and the results seem very promising so far. I hope I have a service up in a few months.
Comment by phred — December 8, 2005 8:02 am #comment-1886
I’ve linked to this website through my article: Basic Guidelines for Tagging on Flickr. Maybe you want to have a look at it…
Comment by Michael — December 8, 2005 5:38 pm #comment-1888
Funny that Del.icio.us got itself bought so recently.
I just wanted to address the last question, about Del’s API terms. I’m referring to the terms of use posted at http://del.icio.us/help/api/, specifically #2 and the methods available. They want you to wait a second between requests, which limits the amount of broad cross-tag correlation you can do, and they provide only methods for accessing your own tags & posts. Everything else must be accomplished via screen-scraping, which isn’t very effective on a site that changes as often as Del. The hairy math, I think, has been done: Flickr’s photo clusters are exactly what I’m imagining needs to happen, but access to the original database is a pre-requisite for that sort of thing. I guess now that they’re all under the same corporate umbrella, we may see these features drift from site to site.
I’m really curious to see what you’re working on with clusters. Did you have to screen scrape? Is there something about the API I’m not aware of?
My ultimate interest is to see an environment that continues to reward the emergence of services like Del, not so much for the features as for the incremental experimentation. It was frustrating to see the del-discuss list pounce on the author of Delirious (url?) the way they did, though he was lucky he wasn’t contending with the Y! legal team to boot.
Comment by Michal Migurski — December 12, 2005 7:07 am #comment-1906
I’m grabbing the RSS feed of recent bookmark posts each 10 minutes. That’s all. I think for building cluster data, that’s enough. I don’t need all data. I guess I’m fetching about 20% of the posts.
I also compute some statistic data.
But, this just works for building the “overall clusters”. When I want to compute which url belongs to which clusters, I have to get the rss-Feed of an url, where I’m limited to the last 30 posts. Probably that will be ok or even an advantage as people tend to tag urls diffently over time and thus it could be good to just fetch the last 30 posts of an url.
I’m against screenscraping because del.icio.us/robots.txt says:
And I want to respect that. I’m dependent on del.icio.us’ and yahoo’s grace..
Comment by phred — December 12, 2005 9:05 am #comment-1907
Hi Phillip -
Regarding your request to put some order into your tags. Did you check what RawSugar lets you do there? You can put your tags hierarchically and thus offer your searchers (and yoursef) a neater picture of your tagspace. In addition it provides a better search. So that if you search “big firms” on your directory if will find all the links that belong to the individual firms.
Frank
Comment by Frank Smadja — January 11, 2006 4:44 pm #comment-2082
Hi Frank
I tried to add some hierarchic tags to a few links.
Is there a possibility to build a list, let’s say I tagged
When I then do a list of “internet”, is it possible to order the bookmarks
blogging
tagging
I just tried out and what’s cool is that when I tag something as “blogging” it is included when I search for internet because blogging is under the hierarchy of internet..
Comment by phred — January 11, 2006 5:11 pm #comment-2083
Are you referring to the ordering of items or the ordering ot tags. What hierarchies give you are the following 2 points:
- Neater and more compact tag space. Useful for searching.
- Automatic tagging in higher levels of the hierarchy. When you tag something as blogging, it automatically goes into “Internet”.
Check out my page: http://rawsugar.com/links/frank and see the tag hierarchy on the left -
You should also check the way you can add a tagbox in your site with http://www.rawsugar.com/myaccount/4myWeb –
See for example http://billsaysthis.com/movies/ (top right categories and subcategories) and http://www.westernwheelers.org/main/index.htm (second half of the page)-
Thanks
Frank
Comment by Frank Smadja — January 12, 2006 9:09 am #comment-2085
Ah, now I think I got it. I always was thinking in terms of ordering items and you were talking about ordering tags.
I like the way of how Rawsugar does this hierarchy thing.
Delicious has this Tagbundles but this doesn’t work as you have to manually put tags into the bundles. You offer a way to do this at the time of tagging an item..
I’m still hoping that an automated process could do this for me and all my tags I already have. But I still have to come up with a good algorithm..
Comment by phred — January 12, 2006 9:24 am #comment-2087
Tags help you to organize: YES because it adds personal semantic context to the website that the text itself and Google search results may not have! — see http://tdot.blog-city.com/evolution_bookmarking.htm
Folksonomy – Classification of the masses: I don’t think that it is a way to build a taxonomy. It adds semantic information and because we share common sense we can benefit from each others tags. But it is not in a strict classification system. I use ordered tags as an advanced tagging system that does not enforce a structure but provides the advantages of complexer tagging structures — see http://tdot.blog-city.com/advanced_tagging_with_ordered_tags.htm
Compose a view of tagged bookmarks: I guess you can find a technical solution for a specific problem but in general for a users perspective I want the small structured and ordered list (Favorits) separated from the large unordered index (bookmarks database). http://tdot.blog-city.com/rethinking_bookmarks_ui.htm
Bottom line: I’m not interested in tagging as a feature or in its technical issues. I’m using it as a tool for semantic annotations. Belief it or not even without any Web 2.0 tagging system for local Firefox bookmarks (http://tdot.blog-city.com/firefox_hacks_tagging.htm)
I think your article is an important contribution to the current discussion because it questions some very frequently repeated statements, which just create a hype without understanding.
Comment by Tdot — May 4, 2006 4:52 am #comment-2831